Dr William Keel Interview - (Inglese - Italian) Also I translate the interview in Italian (at the bottom of the Inglese one) with the awareness That it can not make things the Same Way, even for my poor knowledge of Inglese. I will refine the translation. -------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
I translated into Italian the interview (more than in English) with awareness of not being able to make le cose allo stesso modo, anche per la mia scarsa conoscenza della lingua inglese. Raffinerò la traduzione. This is the second experiment of inteview, started
here with Alice, and it's a real honor, and also a pleasure, to host in my blog a scientist which I'm particularly linked.
This time the interviewed is
Dr. William Keel (NGC3314 in
GalaxyZoo Forum ), a professional astronomer of the
University of Alabama , with an enviable Curriculum Vitae and numerous publications to its credit.
It's also my guru of the
overlapping galaxies , a Galaxy Zoo project in which I'm particularly involved.
Half65: Dr Keel present yourself to readers.
 |
| Dr. William Keel |
Dr. Keel: I'm an astronomer working at the University of Alabama. In my younger days I spent several years at
Kitt Peak National Observatory , and at Leiden University in the Netherlands. Unlike many colleagues, I started as an amateur astronomer in my backyard. My special interests are in the study of galaxies - interacting galaxies, active galaxies, dust in galaxies, history of galaxies... My approach is strongly observational; the quest for data has taken me to observatories from Hawaii to Russia and from Chile to Arizona, and on to use of instruments in space. My training started in optical astronomy, but later work has taken me occasionally into radio, X-ray, and especially ultraviolet measurements.
Half65: You're a member of the Galaxy Zoo Team. Do you really believe, especially in the beginning, that the project would have been so succesful and would have grown so widely ?
Dr. Keel: I didn't see this coming - not only the breadth of public interest and engagement, but the depth to which some participants have gone. I would never have expected, for example, the work that some have done in creating web interfaces for side projects, doing SQL (
Ed.: Structured Query Language - A query language for databases ) queries and reformatting the results to make charts with auxiliary data (as you have), or the sophisticated way the Pea (
Ed.: Pea Galaxies - Un raro tipo di galassie scoperto dagli utenti di GalaxyZoo ) team made their case to the Zookeepers (
Ed.: in GalaxyZoo the founder are called Zookeeper ). Likewise, I don't think the SDSS team ever expected that human beings would inspect every galaxy in their main sample, or examine all those spectra in detail.
Half65: In you current work of astronomer at what percentage Galaxy Zoo, and derived works, occupy your time ?
Dr. Keel: I recently realized that all my project funding from NASA for various things is related to Galaxy Zoo projects - Hanny's Voorwerp (
Ed.: a strange object discovered by one of the users of GalaxyZoo ), public outreach programs, and UV analysis of the overlapping-galaxy sample. Beyond that, the Kitt Peak observations of smaller AGN (
Ed.: Active Galactic Nucleus ) clouds (which we're finishing tonight -
Ed.: 8 June 2010 ) and a
SARA (
Ed.: Southeastern Association for Research in Astronomy ) program on the occurrence of "dead quasars" are also derived from Galaxy Zoo. As things have developed, much of my involvement has been through projects which began on the forum rather than the original statistical questions the Zoo was designed to answer - one more example of the power of serendipity in astronomy. I became part of the team only after participating on the forum and contacting some of the original Zookeepers, in fact.
 |
| Kitt Peak (Credit: P. Marenfeld (NOAO/AURA/NSF)) |
Half65: How is important, for your teaching activity, to be an active researcher ?
Dr. Keel: As I see it, this enriches the students' experience in at least two ways. Of course, they will be exposed to the latest (and often very exciting) results. My introductory students have seen pictures of Hanny's Voorwerp for a couple of years now when we talk about AGN and their relation to galaxy development. Beyond that, it s very natural for people involved in research to expose students very clearly to the way science works - the interplay of observations and hypothesis informing one another. That is best taught in the context of specific projects, so I often lead students through the tale of how we learned things as well as the results. (I have to say that many participants in the Zoo get this quite clearly, and become deeply involved in research as well as understanding how it works).
Half65: I read that the space missions of the '60 impacted substantially on your subsequent career. I read of your discussion with students about the Apollo missions in which you disprove the evidence brought by those who are convinced that never occured. I confess that without a scientific approach in the eyes of a layman like me and some doubts may be and those explanations are really appreciated. Two questions on the subject.
Because the LEM appears not to sink into the regolith? Why the astronauts don't made some kind of signal visible to the naked eye?(In an example was cited the possibility to lay a sheet of aluminum to reflect sunlight)
Dr. Keel: Some lunar scientists were quite worried that the regolith wouldn't bear the load of a person even in 1/6 g, because so little was known about whether the fine powdery results of eons of micrometeoroids would behave. The NASA robotic landers - the Surveyors - were designed to have the same load (in kg/cm^2) as was expected for the LM on landing, to test this directly. They also looked at their footpads with the TV cameras to see how deeply they sank. his is outside my actual expertise, but I think the issue is how particles settle over time, especially when impacts generate small vibrations over and over for long times.
I don't think it occurred to anyone working on Apollo that they would need more evidence than photographs, tracking, and samples. There were some ideas kicked around (in both USA and USSR) for the first robotic missions, some as crazy as setting off a nuclear blast to show it had reached its target. The aluminum sheet is an interesting idea to explore - if a 2x1 meter Iridium (
Ed.: a telecommunication satellite ) antenna panel can reflect enough sunlight to be seen in daylight 800 km up, how much sunlight would be a bright object from the lunar surface? It would have to stand out against the sunlit lunar surface. If the panel were flat to better than 1/4 degree, it would reflect sunlight to at least the center of its aim point with the same intensity as a perfect mirror (since the Sun appears 1/2 degree in diameter). At the center of its reflected beam, an Iridium can be magnitude -8. So if we put the same 2-m^2 panel at the Moon's distance of 400,000 km, it would appear fainter by 5 * log(400,000/800) = 13.5 magnitudes. If aimed exactly to catch sunlight form part of the Earth, it could be as bright as magnitude 13.5-8 = 5.5. That would be visible telescopically, at least from part of the Earth - since the Sun appears 1/4 as large as the Earth in the lunar sky, only a small part of Earth would see the reflection. To show up to the naked eye, it would have to be much brighter, so it could stand out against the bright Moon - at least 100 times larger in area, 200 m^2 or so, would be needed. This would have to be properly aligned and kept flat to 1/4 degree or better - not impossible, but a considerable technical feat.
Half65: What would you responde to those who ask: "Why study Astronomy ?"
Dr. Keel: For many people, there are probably two questions - what benefit does a person gain from astronomy, and should society pay people to pursue this branch of research? Many people find strength, even exaltation,
form contemplating the vastness and intricacy of the Universe in which we find ourselves. There are all sorts of quotations from famous people making this point. Immediately, I can find these in my file of sayings:
| "... if wonder and humility are the best vehicles to bear the soul to its hearth, I should think that a quiet Sunday morning spent at home in controlled meditation on a picture book of galaxies might be an auspicious start for that voyage." Joseph Campbell, Creative Mythology, ch. 9 part VI |
| | "Many a man, brought up in the glib profession of some shallow form of Christianity, who comes through reading Astronomy to realize for the first time how majestically indifferent most reality is to man, and who perhaps abandons his religion on that account, may at that moment be having his first genuinely religious experience."
C.S. Lewis, Miracles (chapter 7) |
| "Whereas other animals hang their heads and look at the ground, he made man erect, bidding him to look up to heaven, and lift his head to the stars."
Or according to CS Lewis, Letters vol. III p. 1267 (16 May 1961), "Whereas other animals look earthwards, he gave to man a lofty countenance and ordered him to contemplate the sky and to raise his erected face ot the stars."
Ovid (Metamorphoses book I) |
| "I can never look upon the stars without wondering that the whole world does not become astronomers; and that men, endowed with sense and reason, should neglect a science that must convince them of their immortality."
Thomas Wright |
| "What intelligent being, what being capable of responding emotionally to a beautiful sight, can look at the jagged, silvery lunar crescent trembling in the azure sky, even through the weakest of telescopes, and not be struck by it in an intensely pleasurable way, not feel cut off from everyday life here on Earth and transported toward that first stop on celestial journeys?
What thoughtful soul could look at brilliant Jupiter with its four attendant satellites, or splendid Saturn encircled by its mysterious ring, o r a double star glowing scarlet and sapphire in the infinity of night, and not be filled with a sense of wonder? Yes, indeed:
If humankind - from humble farmers in the fields and toiling workers in the cities to teachers, people of independent means, those who have reached the pinnacle of fame or fortune, even the most frivolous of society women - if they knew what profound inner pleasure awaits those who gaze at the heavens, then France, nay, the whole of Europe, would be covered with telescopes instead of bayonets, thereby promoting universal happiness and peace."
Camille Flammarion, French astronomer, 1880 |
The other question is one that keeps coming up in political discussions. Does government have any business supporting basic research which doesn't have obvious application to its basic functions? Of course, this answer will differ from place to place depending on the way governments work. I've heard astronomy justified because it pushes technology in advance of commercial needs, as a form of national prestige, and because this is something that great societies do. These are all a little weak to me; I tend to think that it enriches a society, however astronomy is supported and organized.
Half65: Naturally i can't miss a question about Overlapping Galaxies.
When you launched on the Forum the request to report this particular optical alignment did you believe that this combination was rare ? Did you thought to receive so much data to allow the number of observational campaigns that follows ?
Dr. Keel: I had done a lot of work on dust in galaxies with this approach up to about 2000, when we ran out of known nearby candidates (some astronomers would occasionally email me random examples they came across). I could see within a few weeks that we would improve on that dramatically - I showed some pictures at a meeting (in Rome, my only visit there) in the autumn of 2007 to show what new possibilities there were. But a list of over 2000 candidates was beyond what I could have thought of early in the project. Some of these have been very informative - a favorite example is shown in the attached pictures, first a color image taken last month from the 3.5m
WIYN telescope (
Ed.: Winsconsin, Indiana, Yale & NOAO - Kitt Peak ) and then a version processed to show the amount of dust absorption. We now have 4 pairs (one from Hubble, the rest from GZ) with evidence of dust lanes very far out in the galaxy, were the density of stars has dropped too low to find the dust in other ways (and it may even be too cold for current far-infrared techniques, though we hope to test that with
Herschel (
Ed.: a space observatory ).
 |
| Color Image WIYN 3.5 mt (Credit: William Keel) |
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| Processed Image (Credit: William Keel) |
Half65: Finally you can say what you want.
Dr. Keel: At the risk of sounding poetic but doing it badly, it's an amazing thing that we live in a Universe where stars are born and die, worlds can be made of molten rock, ice, or liquid hydrogen, moons can spray volcanic matter hundreds of km into their skies or have lakes of methane, gigantic black holes can power unimaginable energy release, galaxies can collide and change form, stars can dance in pars, triples, and clusters - and we can start to see and understand it!
Half65: Really a great interview. Thanks Bill for the precious time subtracted to your and for the beautiful images. -------------------------------------------------------------------
Questo è il secondo esperimento di intervista, iniziato
qui with Alice, and is a real honor and a pleasure, welcome to my blog a scientist who have a special bond.
This time the interviewee is Dr. William
Kill (NGC4133 in the
GalaxyZoo Forum), a professional astronomer 's
University of Alabama, with an enviable CV and numerous publications on the assets .
E 'also my guru
overlapping galaxies (Overlapping Galaxies) a draft of Galaxy Zoo in which they are particularly affected.
Half65: Dr Keel present himself to the readers.
| |
| Dr. William Keel |
Dr. Keel: am an astronomer working for the University of Alabama.
I spent several years at the beginning 'of the Kitt Peak National Observatory
and al'lUniversità of Leiden in the Netherlands. In contrast to other colleagues, I started out as amateur astronomer in my backyard. I am particularly interested in the study of galaxies - interacting galaxies, active galaxies, dust in galaxies, history of galaxies, ... My first approach is highly observational.
research data led me to some observers, from Hawaii to Russia, Chile, Arizona, and the use of space tools. My training began with the optical astronomy, but the next job, I occasionally approached hano radio astronomy, especially X-ray and ultraviolet measurement.
Half65: She is a member of Team Galaxy Zoo He really believed, especially in the beginning, the project was so successful and would have grown so widely?
Dr. Keel: There I saw what happened, not only the extent of the interest and involvement of the public, but even the depth at which some participants have gone. I never would have expected, for example, the work that many have done to create Web interfaces for side projects, the research in SQL (
Ed: Structured Query Language - - query language for databases ) and formatting of results to create tables with ancillary data (as you did) or the sophisticated approach taken by the team of Pea (Ed.
: Pea Galaxies - A rare type of galaxy discovered by users of GalaxyZoo) to submit their research to the Zookeeper (
Ed: In GalaxyZoo makers are called Zookeeper (zookeepers) ). Similarly I do not think that the team of the SDSS is expected to inspect each galaxy of human beings of their primary store or look in detail at such a high number of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Half65: In his current job as an astronomer at what percentage Galaxy Zoo, and derivative works, occupy his time?
Dr. Keel: I recently realized that all my projects funded by NASA for many aspects are related to the project Galaxy Zoo - Hanny's woorverp (
Editor's note: a strange object discovered by a user GalaxyZoo ) programs, public awareness and analysis of ultraviolet data Overlapping galaxies. Beyond that the observations of small clouds AGN (
Ed.: Active Galactic Nucleus - Active Galactic Nuclei ) (which we finished last night -
Ed: June 8, 2010). and a program
SARA (
Ed: Southeastern Association for Research in Astronomy ) event of the "almost dead" also derived from Galaxy Zoo As things have developed most of the involvement is depended on projects that started in the forum rather than the original statistical applications for which the zoo had been drawn - another example of serendipity in astronomy. In fact I have become part of the team only after participated in the fourm and have contacted some of the original zookeeper.
| |
| Kitt Peak (Credit: P. Marenfeld (NOAO / AURA / NSF)) |
Half65: How important, for his work as a teacher, also be a researcher in business?
Dr. Keel: The way I see it, this enriches the experience of students in at least two ways. Of course be aware (and will often be very excited) of the results. My students have seen pictures of the initial courses dell'Hanny Voorwerp's already a couple of years when we talk about AGN and their interaction with the development of galaxies.
Beyond this is very natural for those involved in research very clearly explain to students how science works, the interaction of observations and assumptions used to both. These are best developed in the context of specific projects, so frequently, I lead the students through stories about how we learn things as they arrive at the results. (I must say that many participants at the zoo have cmpreso this clearly and have become deeply involved in research as well as understand how the work).
Dr. Keel: I read that the space missions of the '60s have impacted greatly on on his subsequent career. I have read that discusses with students about the Apollo missions to refute the evidence brought by those who argue that no ever recorded. I confess that without a scientific approach in the eyes of a layman like me and some doubts may be well be those explanations. Two questions on the subject.
Why the LEM does not seem to sink into the regolith? Why was not made some kind of signal from all visible to the naked eye? (E 'example cited was the ability to roll out a sheet of aluminum that would reflect sunlight)
 |
| Buzz Aldrin - Apollo 11 (Credit: NASA) |
Dr. Keel: Many scientists were very concerned that the lunar regolith could not bear the weight of a person, not even 1 / 6 gravity, because so little was known about how the fine powder, the result eons of impacts of micrometeorites, would behave. NASA's robotic probes - the Surveyors (Surveyors) - were designed to have the same load (kg / cm) before the LM landing in order to test this directly. Inolte looked at the prints with the camera to see how much sunk. This is beyond my current skills by ip but I think the problem depends on how the particles behave over time, especially when impacts generate small vibrations continuously for a long time.
I think that none of the Apollo project seems necessary to others outside of photographs, tracks and samples. There were a number of ideas generated (both USA and Russia) for the first robotic mission, some totally insane as to cause a nuclear explosion to show everyone that he ragginto the target. The aluminum foil is an interesting idea to explore, if a panel antenna of a 2x1 meter Iridium (
Ed: telecommunications satellite ) can reflect enough sunlight to be visible by day from 800 km, as it should be to be visible from the lunar surface? Should be laid out on lunar surface exposed to solar radiation. If the panel was more on the flat of 1 / 4 of a degree would reflect sunlight at about the middle of the meeting point of the rays with the same intensity of a perfect mirror (since the Sun appears with a diameter of 1 / 2 grade). At the center of this beam of light may appear an Iridium magnitude -8. So if we put the same panel of 2x2 meters on the moon at a distance of 400,000 km appear weaker than 5 * log (400.000/800) = 13.5 magnitudes. If he had the ability to capture the light of the Earth should have a magnitude of 13.5 - 8 = 5.5. This would make it visible instrumentally, at least one part of the Earth until the Sun appeared 1 / 4 the width of the Earth in the lunar sky, only a small part of the Earth would see the reflection. To be visible to the naked eye should be more brilliant, so as to be visible against the brilliance of the moon, at least 100 times as large as area, 200 square meters or more would be needed. This should be properly aligned and maintained in plan, 1 / 4 of a degree or less. Not impossible but technically complicated.
Half65: What would you respond to those who ask: "Why study astronomy?"
Dr. Keel: For many people probably have two questions - what are the benefits that a person derives from astronomy and the company should pay people to do this kind of research?
Many people draw their strength, even elation, comtemplare in the vastness and complexity of the universe in which we live. There are all
generei of quotations from famous people that confirm this. On two feet I can mention the following:
| "... if you wonder and humility are the best means to lead the soul to her heart, I believe that a quiet Sunday morning spent at home in contemplation of a book of photographs of galaxies may be a desirable departure for that trip. " Joseph Campbell, Creative Mythology, ch. 9 Part VI |
|
"More than a man, who grew up in the shadow of some weak form of Christianity inculcated by professionals talkativeness, who comes to realize for the first time through readings in astronomy because the reality is majestically indifferent to men, and perhaps abandon their religion for this reason, at that time to experience the first real religious experience. "
CS Lewis, Miracles (chapter 7) |
|
"Whereas other animals hang their heads and quard to earth, he made man upright, allowing him to look up to heaven and raise the head to the stars. "
CS Lewis, Letters (vol. III, p. 1267-16 May 1961) |
| |
" Whereas other animals look on the ground, gave the man a noble face and ordered him to contemplate the sky and float upright with his face to the stars. " Ovid (Metamorphoses - Book I) |
|
"I can not look to the stars without fantasizing because everyone in the world from turning into astronomers and men, endowed with sense and reason, one should overlook the science that would convince them of their immortality. "
Thomas Wright |
|
" What is intelligence, what it means to be able to respond emotionally to a beautiful view, looking at the jagged, silvery crescent moon shimmering in the blue sky, through the weakest of telescopes, and not be hit so hard in a pleasant, not feel cut off from everyday life here on Earth and transported to the stellar first leg of the journey?
How nice could look at brilliant Jupiter with its four satellites that follow it, or the beautiful Saturn surrounded by its ring mysterious, or a double star glowing scarlet and sapphire in the infinity of the night, and not be full of wonder? Yes, indeed:
If humanity - from the humble peasants in the fields to the workers toiling in the cities, teachers, people with their own means, those who have reached the pinnacle of fame or fortune, even the most frivolous of society women - if they knew what profound inner joy awaits those who look at the heavens, then France, indeed all of Europe, would be covered with telescopes instead of bayonets, thereby promoting the happiness and peace Universal.
Camille Flammarion French astronomer, 1880 |
The other question is one of those that might arise during policy discussions. Governments have programs to support basic research that does not have direct applications for their basic functionality? Certainly the answer differs from country to country in view of the way the government operates. I felt justified because astronomy put the needs of technology growth in front of the business requirements as a reason of national prestige, and because this is what they do for larger companies. These reasons are a bit 'weak to me: I tend to think that what enriches a society is supported astronomy and organized.
Half65: It could, of course, there was no question about overlapping galaxies.
When launched the request to report this particular optical alignment was thought that this combination is rare? Expected to receive so much data that you can make the number of observing campaigns that have followed?
Dr. Keel: I made a lot of work on the dust in galaxies with this approach when we ran out of candidates close to us (some astronomers occasionally sent me via e-mail examples in which they randomly come across). I saw that we could have dramatically increased - in a few weeks showed some pictures in a meeting (in Rome, my only time there) in the fall of 2007 to show what were the possibilities. But a list of over 2000 candidates was beyond what I could have imagined at the beginning of the project. Some of these were very helpful - a favorite example is shown in the figure, the first image, taken last month with the WIYN telescope
(
Ed: Wisconsin, Indiana, Yale and NOAO - Kitt Peak ) of 3.5 mt, and the second developed to highlight the amount of absorption due to dust.
We now have four pairs (one Hubble, the others GalazyZoo) with evidence of streams of dust far away from the galaxy, where the star density fell to levels so low that it can not identify the powder in any other way (and may even be too cold for the current measurement techniques in the far infrared, even if we test it with Herschel
(Ed: a space observatory).
| |
| Color Image WIYN 3.5 m (Credit: William Keel) |
|
| |
| processed image (Credit: William Keel) |
Half65: Finally can say what he wants.
Dr. Keel: At the risk of sounding poetic without success, it's amazing to think that we live in a universe where stars are born and die, the worlds can be made of molten rock, ice or liquid nitrogen, the moons can spray volcanic material thousands of miles in their skies or have lakes of methane, the giant blacks holes may issue unimaginable amounts of energy, galaxies can collide and change shape, the stars are dancing in pairs, trios and group we can begin to see and understand them.
Half65: Definitely a great interview. Thanks Bill for the valuable time taken away from you and for the beautiful pictures.
